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Kalielar
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:04 pm  Reply with quote
Druid


Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 1146
Location: Shattanooga Shoo Shoo

Since Blizzard doesn't adequately address this in the game manual (and I'm sure half the players never even cracked the manual open), I'm posting some brief excerpts about the etiquette of party looting, especially in instances. In fact, a level 60 friend of mine was just yesterday explaining to me the concept of "1 BLUE, 1 SET" loot rule to prep me for endgame instances (see the Legacy Reborn's charter for their 1 BLUE rules guide -- but don't worry about this particular rule until you're doing larger raids) so there's always new concepts and rulesets to learn along the way, especially in an ever-evolving game like World of Warcraft. So please take the time to read the following guide. (As G.I. Joe always said, "Knowing is half the battle.)


The Ultra Basics:

Remember, when parties are set to Group Loot and a sweet green or blue drops and that little pop-up window opens* you have three choices:

dice = roll / need
round coin (aka the cheese thing*) = roll / greed
x = pass

*Sorry if this sounds insulting as it is not intended to be so. My first time in Deadmines, I was an ignorant noob asking, "What's the cheese stand for?" So I'm just posting this as a 'just in case'. Gear looting can make or break a group, so it is in everyone's best interest to know the concepts and etiquette.


The Concepts:

::: N E E D = Roll 'need' if the the item is an UPGRADE improvement to what you already have. Just because you can use it, doesn't mean you should roll for it. (If you're having trouble deciding if an item is a 'NEED', especially in the fast-paced heat of battle, I highly recommend downloading the Cosmos add-on which includes an EQUIPMENT COMPARE add-on that shows side-by-side stat comparisons. It helps prevent accidental indecisive-trigger-finger syndrome.)

*For Example: Even though a Druid can wear both cloth and leather, leather is clearly better for armor value. So if an uncommon cloth item drops, the Druid should roll 'greed' instead because the item will be far more useful to a Priest, Mage or Warlock. In that same vein, even though a Druid can use a high DPS dagger, he should roll 'greed' in a party where there is a Rogue that utterly relies on daggers. Know what stats other classes need more than you do -- Rogues, Hunters and Feral Druids for example prize +Agility, whereas Casters prize +Intellect. Study your class, and roll for the items that have the stats you actually need. (Also, please do not roll 'NEED' if it is for your alt or your 'friend' or you will inevitably be inflicted with someone's SHADOW WORD: PAIN.)


::: GREED = Roll greed if the item is not an upgrade to your current gear and you just want to vendor or auction it off for cash, or disenchant it. (Please try to give Enchanters a chance to acquire green and blue items so that they can disenchant them for reagents. Giving Enchanters your unusable drops means you get nice enchantments in return later on.) If you don't absolutely need it, then it is GREED, simple as that.


::: PASS = I don't really have to explain the concept of pass, but it is generally a good idea to pass if you know that other party members really need something. It is also most handy for BoP (Bind on Pickup) items that you simply can't use. See more below on BoP. (Enchanters can roll greed on a BoP item that is not otherwise useful to them, as it will still produce a shard or dust.)


ARMOR VALUE STRENGTHS in ascending order:

1.) Cloth - Low armor value - For Priests, Mages and Warlocks
2.) Leather - Medium armor value - For Druids, Rogues and pre-40 Hunters
3.) Mail - High armor value - For Warriors, Palladins and 40+ Hunters
4.) Plate - Kick ass armor value - Warriors and 40+ Palladins


Now, on to the Looting excerpts from the experts:

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From Blizzard:


Typically, the highest-quality equipment and weapons can be found within instances. This makes hunting in them very appealing. However, it also attracts people that are there simply for the loot. Make sure that before you enter the instance, everyone has agreed to how the loot gets divided. The group may be hoping to find a particular item for a particular character, or they may be prepared to sell everything that drops and split the cash. Usually items that can be used by multiple members of the party are "rolled for." It is considered proper etiquette to pass on items you cannot use; however, there may be items that the Group Leader decides that everyone should roll for. Most arguments between players stem from Loot issues. Don't let Loot spoil your fun.

DO NOT LOOT BIND ON PICKUP ITEMS
Dungeons have many items, typically blue and above, that are bind on pickup. This means that once the player picks up the item, it's bound to their character. They can no longer trade it and can only sell the item to the vendor or destroy it. There is a popup box that asks for confirmation before looting a bind on pickup item. Players should always pause at that popup and make sure they are supposed to loot the item first. If you pick up an item by mistake, you can cause irreversible damage to your reputation as other players might not believe it was an error. This can also cause additional repercussions such as difficulty finding groups, or demotion and ejection from your guild.

A good trick to use is to count down before looting a bind on pick-up item. "Looting X in 10, 9, 8, etc." Then wait a little longer once you get to 0 before looting it. That way you can say you gave people a chance to complain prior to looting.


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From The MINI Guide to WoW:


When it comes to gear, you will need to keep in mind the following attributes: "Soulbound" - it's bound to you, so you can't trade it or sell it on the Auction House. You can only sell it for cash to the vendor.

"Bind when picked up." - this is essentially the same as "Soulbound" except usually it has this attribute if it is on a MOB and hasn't been looted yet. Most quest awards are Soulbound or Bind when picked up.

"Bind when equipped" - these only become Soulbound when equipped.

**NOTE: most groups just roll on everything, except when it's a "Bind when picked up" item. MAKE SURE you know if it is a "Bind when picked up" item vs. a "Bind when equipped" item. People get kind of mad if you roll on something you can't use, and I don't blame them. Mistakes do happen though, so forgive once and move on, of course until the next time they do it Wink

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From RPGexpert.com's Starter Guide:


DO NOT JUST TAKE BIND ON PICK-UP ITEMS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER.

Don't make me enlarge and bold that. This is the reason why so many different loot options exist, but it is still best to discuss with your group what is to become of an item. Most people follow a policy of NBG (need before greed) that mandates that if you are a warlock and you could loot a really nice bow, it should instead go to the hunter in the party. For this purpose, "need" for cash and disenchanting are on an even plane, and squarely below someone wanting an item because they would use it themselves (on that character.) In the event that more than one person wants an item, it is generally acceptable to roll for it, by typing /random. Highest roll (from 0 to 100) wins.

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That's all I could find for now in regards to Need vs Greed vs Pass. If anyone else finds good loot guides, please append this post with links or excerpts. Everyone also check out BLIZZARD's Guide to Etiquette. As they say at Jinx.com, "if you don't know any Ninja-Looters, it's probably you".


Last edited by Kalielar on Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:19 am; edited 2 times in total

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Kalielar
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:34 pm  Reply with quote
Druid


Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 1146
Location: Shattanooga Shoo Shoo

Here's a brief excerpt from the Bradygames Official Guide to World of Warcraft. Buy the book! It's worth the $16, I mean it -- it's the best $16 you'll ever spend, next to your monthly WoW subscription that is. (This post is not intended to violate the copyrights of the book, but rather to encourage everyone to go to a store and buy the actual book. This is not the complete text from the chapter, merely excerpts.)


Treasure Distribution:

"When hunting in a group, especially when that group is composed of strangers, it is very wise to establish loot rules ahead of time. The dominant form of drop rules is to make a pledge of Need Before Greed (NBG). This means that any character in the group who needs an item is placed in priority above someone who would just sell the item to a vendor or give it to an alternate character/guildie. This keeps parties together in a better atmosphere of cooperation.

Multiple people may need an item that falls, especially when that item is powerful. To quickly solve the issue, let the highest roller have the item (only people who need the item should be allowed to roll). Also, being able to use an item doesn't necessarily mean that you need it. A Warrior with an entire set of Superior Level 30 equipment shouldn't be rolling to snag Level 25 mail drops that a lower-level tank is direly in need of equipping.

The muddiest waters come when several people can use an item and it's an upgrade, but one class may need the upgrade far more than others. Consider a party with a Mage who uses swords, a Warrior (also specializing in blades), and a Rogue who likes having a sword as well. Who needs the Epic sword that those lovely elite trolls just dropped? Do all of them? Yes and no, of course.

The Warrior would use it a great deal. The Rogue would too. For the Mage, it would be an improvement, but that player wouldn't be using it nearly as often. A conundrum, for certain. In these cases, it's better if the Mage backs off, but it isn't required either. So, the 'right' thing to do for the Mage is to let the primary melee characters roll for it while looking for lesser swords. The 'right' thing for the Warrior and Rogue is to accept the Mage's request to roll if he does push forward. Either side has the ability to walk away looking respectable, even if they don't come away with a rare item!

When someone tries to slip things past the group by picking up items without reporting them or by pretending to need something they don't, it's best to follow a few steps. First, try to mention that the item is needed for someone else and see if that is enough to get things done. People do pick up items without noticing on occasion. An honest mistake is an honest mistake. However, a consistent pattern of doing this, or a few 'accidents' with Bind on Pickup items can be quite telling. If a person has been doing this, tell them to stop. Even when the offending player is skilled and useful to the party, you may want to stop grouping with them in future runs if they're dragging morale down and causing group disputes.

Ninja Looting is the process of taking a powerful item (usually a Bind on Acquire item from an Instance) before others have a chance to decide who should receive the item. A common scenario is for the looter of a powerful enemy to look on the body, report a powerful drop, then stand back up (because it's a BoA, they cannot loot it themselves without ruining everyone else's chance for the item). The body is free for anyone in the group to loot after that point. While the party is rolling for the item, a Ninja Looter could ignore the roll, rush the body, and grab the item. The finishing touch is to use their Hearthstone, return home, drop out of the group, and log off for the night. This sounds odd, but it does happen from time to time."


In conclusion, think before you roll. In the end, it's just a game and it's just virtual loot -- but the value is in how much fun everyone has, and looting disputes are definite kill-joys.

Lastly, again I recommend buying the book -- it's not only όber handy, but it has some never-before-seen Penny Arcade comics that are hilarious. You can also save money on the guide if you combine your order with the newest book from Bradygames, the Official World of Warcraft Atlas! (I expect to see this under my Christmas tree, folks, hehe.)

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Kalielar Timberlake
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Tryxx
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:47 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 193

I admit I made a few mistakes early on with the need vs. greed choice, strictly out of ignorance -- I think EquipCompare single-handedly saved my reputation. Well, since I quit whorin' anyway.

I'd like to throw in a cautionary note about the not-so-well-established etiquette of rolling on something that you were NOWHERE near -- ie, you've grouped with someone for a kill quest and they're still beating up some pirates in Tanaris while you've hearthed back to IF to check your auctions... something amazing drops for them, what do you do? You PASS. It doesn't matter how fucking great it is or how long you've been dying to get your grubby little hands on it, you PASS. You did nothing to kill it. You do not deserve it. THE END.

A guildmate of ours recently had a run-in with a player who didn't quite understand this concept, a guy who rolled on (and won) a blue drop (that he was nowhere near) and then went ahead and casually asked her for the green drop that she won shortly after -- she asked if he needed it and he said, "Nah, I just want to sell it." Am I taking crazy pills?

Evidently, some people's mommy's never taught them to share.
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Kalielar
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:10 pm  Reply with quote
Druid


Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 1146
Location: Shattanooga Shoo Shoo

Yeah, I totally agree with Tryxx -- rolling on a drop that fell off a mob that you did not participate in killing is generally considered rude. (I once came in to help a party in Scarlet Monastary on the final Cathedral boss after they had wiped 5x. Guess what? A beautiful blue necklace dropped with all the lovely stats I could ever want, and I PASSED. Even though I helped kill the boss, these guys had been at it for hours through the instance -- I came in at the last 5 minutes to throw a couple of heals out. Clearly, the person who won the necklace worked hard for it, and I wasn't going to spoil their fun just because it would have been a nice improvement for myself.)


Also, having experienced even more looting probs with people in PuGs recently, (and even though I feel like a nagging broken record) I'm going to reiterate LOOTING Rules in a brief Cliff Notes version:


• If you only plan to vendor it for cash = GREED.

• If it is something you cannot use or equip = GREED.

• If you plan to disenchant it for shards and dusts = GREED.

• If you want it for your alt / guildmate / neighbor = GREED.

• If it is not an improvement over what you are wearing now = GREED.

• If and only if it is BETTER in armor value and stats than what you are wearing now (and especially if the stats are a boon to your class) = NEED!

• If you weren't there to kill it yourself = PASS.


Just because you need some gold to train, or you want a shiny new axe or another keg of lager, does not mean you roll 'need'. Most of the time, expect to be rolling 'greed' or 'pass'.

Everyone needs more in-game money, so please only roll 'need' on the things that you can actually use.

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Kalielar Timberlake
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Cauri
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:57 pm  Reply with quote
Priest


Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 18

haha is this a "hint hint" by chance?
Very Happy
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Kalielar
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:07 am  Reply with quote
Druid


Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 1146
Location: Shattanooga Shoo Shoo

Hehe, and here I thought I was being subtle.

If only everyone in Azeroth was as astute as you. *cough*

Wink

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Kalielar Timberlake
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Adeena
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:01 pm  Reply with quote
Hunter


Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 266

I find subtle is never quite as effective as a direct approach muhaha Twisted Evil
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